Vaccine passports

[Spurs]

So what are everybody’s views on the much talked about vaccine passports. Should they just be for travel as it seems the airlines and probably the country you are visiting are going to need them .
Or should they become part of daily life where they are needed to go to pub ,cinema ,football ground , theatre even work etc ?
My view is they will become part of daily life ,not that I particularly want that to happen but I can just see more and more places Will start to demand them , I also think the gov will want some sort of sanctions against people who turn down vaccines to try to encourage them to take up .
I’ve seen this week life insurance company’s are starting to add it to the requirements

[Keith and Jen]

The very thin end of a very fat wedge.

Keith

[Duncan S]

I don't see the problem.
If you want to travel abroad - you have to have a passport.
If you wish to visit certain countries - a vaccine certificate is required.
If you buy alcohol (or fireworks) - you need a document to confirm your age.
If you drive a vehicle - a valid licence is required.
If you are in the 'system' - you need a National Insurance  number.
To open a bank account - you need passport, utility bills etc..

There may be more examples that we take for granted.
This virus is a killer let's  not forget. A vaccination certificate (or exemption) seems a small price to pay.

[wilson]

I don't see the problem.
If you want to travel abroad - you have to have a passport.
If you wish to visit certain countries - a vaccine certificate is required.
If you buy alcohol (or fireworks) - you need a document to confirm your age.
If you drive a vehicle - a valid licence is required.
If you are in the 'system' - you need a National Insurance  number.
To open a bank account - you need passport, utility bills etc..

There may be more examples that we take for granted.
This virus is a killer let's  not forget. A vaccination certificate (or exemption) seems a small price to pay.

Agree this is just the tip of information and data collected over the last 10 years, unless you lived on the moon. Run an Experian credit check on yourself, you will be amazed who looks into your financial history, take out any insurance motor and travel and read the small print, you give access to your medical records. Your location is tracked every second if you use any mobile phone it always has been. Use a Tesco club card or nectar, M&S, boots etc those points you collect are the reward for selling your soul to retail. API before you fly it’s not a quiz your completing. Go to other countries and visas look at the questions is it business or pleasure, how long and where are you staying, let’s take your picture, fingerprints, retinal scan. If you’ve got your knickers in a twist with a vaccine tick box then that delusional horse has already bolted and you need to face reality.

[John H]

Duncan S and Wilson, I completely agree, Blair tried to introduce ID cards in the 90’s but was unable to due to unfounded opposition, almost every country in the world has them and if you have nothing to hide what’s the problem, plus they would be a great help in fighting crime etc, also we live in a digital age where our details are already held by countless agencies, having one would simplify everything in one document including proof of vaccinations, obviously there will be exemptions, but for me this isn’t a civil liberty issue but a sensible one that will improve civil society and the health of citizens worldwide fighting this pandemic!

Regards all

John

[BeachLife]

Spot on John.

When I had overseas assignments I had to prove I had my Yellow fever and Malaria jabs.

It wasn't a "choice" if I wanted to visit / work in those countries and at no point did I feel that my civil liberties were being violated (as some sectionsof the public believe)

As Wilson says - an Experian check will soon show these people how much information has already been mined on your life.

If you have nothing to worry about - then you have nothing to worry about !

[Blue and white stripes]

Likewise for a cruise we were told it was a condition of going that we had to have a yellow fever jab - it cost us £60 each at a local chemist and that lasts for a lifetime. Passengers who didn't have it (I can only assume because they were exempt) weren't allowed off the ship in Panama, Costa Rica and Columbia. You should have heard the laughter when it was announced over the ship's tannoy.

[kevinb]

I've always been a supporter of ID cards, we should have them and have to show them at hospitals, doctors and anything to do with social security, a good point mentioned by John, if you are legal and straight what do you have to fear from ID cards.

[wilson]

ID cards are used just about everywhere in the world with no issues for a hundred years. If you have a passport or photo driving license then you have one by default by another name. I think the hot potato for successive governments over the years has been the estimated 2 million people who don’t legally exist in the country for various reasons, did everyone in London fill in the cencus recently I sincerely doubt it. So a government would then have a dilemma legalise 2 million people or deport back to there originating country. Before any Guardian readers get a hot flush and their pants twisted  this applies equally to expats who forgot to go home from Spain 20 years ago who are being currently flushed out and sent back to the UK.

[kevinb]

Good points Wilson.

[Derek]

Wilson

Where do you get the 2 million figure from. Don't tell me that is the fault of Boris as well.

Complete rubbish. You cannot rent or get a job without being in the UK legally. Huge fines for both employees and landlords if they employ or let to those in the UK illegally.

That is 3% of the population so 3 people in every hundred are here illegally. (No jobs, No place to live, No benefits)

I would however agree that Spain is correct in their insistence that those living in their country contribute to their system.

Derek

[Spurs]

Hi Derek

Not sure you are totally correct there . Many illegal houses of multiple occupation are full of illegals who are working cash in hand , for example last month the council in Harrow raided an HMO and found 22 people living in a 3 bed house ,all were illegal apart from the Tennant who was subletting to 21 others , they were all working in a factory owned by some dubious characters who obviously didn’t abide by the rules. There was another example in Peterborough full of illegals all working via a dodgy agency on various farms . I suspect this is the top of a very large iceberg

I doubt the figure is 2 million but I suspect it’s a lot higher than we think . The coastguard are picking up at Dover about 100 every day ,how many more get through

I don’t blame Boris I blame the EU who all the time we were in it encouraged them To go  to Calais and not process and return them at first point of entry

I suspect when Pritti Patel has finished we will be a slightly harder touch

[kevinb]

There  is huge fraud going on a lot of it from East Europeans, Ive got a couple of houses I rent out, one I found out after the tenant had left who was an E E was involved in some sort of scam, the two bedroom house had letters keep arriving for twelve different families all purportedly living in a two bedroom house, letters were tax credits, NHS and Dental credits, letters from DHSS, umpteen driving offence summons, one guy had run up thirty four motor offences in five months. I spent hours informing courts, tax offices and DHSS. Our immigration system in the UK is a complete joke.

[John H]

In our part of the world, very rural, most of the farmers have a very small, if any permanent workforce and rely on gang masters to supply the farm labourers as and when required.....the farmers pays the gang master and in all honesty don't give a jot to wether or not the labourers are legal or not, the raids occasionally carried out result in finding surprise surprise that to a man they are nearly all illegal workers.
I think every car wash that's been raided round here has resulted in the work force being classed as illegal.
There are rogue landlords or folk doing illegal sublets making a fortune out of these folk.... normally the folk "employing" them....thinking of a recent thread about squatters these folk have no rights at all.
Just to add virtually every builder I know has labourers working "cash in hand" with no questions asked.
It's a big big issue throughout the UK, just as it is in Spain.

Regards all

John

[wilson]

Wilson

Where do you get the 2 million figure from. Don't tell me that is the fault of Boris as well.

Complete rubbish. You cannot rent or get a job without being in the UK legally. Huge fines for both employees and landlords if they employ or let to those in the UK illegally.

That is 3% of the population so 3 people in every hundred are here illegally. (No jobs, No place to live, No benefits)

I would however agree that Spain is correct in their insistence that those living in their country contribute to their system.

Derek

Derek as it happens it’s nothing to do with Boris but started decades ago. I’m not sure what utopian part of the uk you reside in but if you come to my nearest city of Birmingham and take off your rose tinted glasses you will quickly conclude that there are 2 different societies running in parallel, the people in the system and the people that live in the shadows, and we’re talking about thousands who sadly can’t access what most of us take for granted. Nothing to do with race, religion or culture I will add for the Guardian readers amongst us.