PCR test in Spain

[TRIDENT]

Was Talking to a ex neighbour in the uk who is a nurse working in the day opp unit and the subject of vaccines came up. She said the nhs staff refusing the vaccine were mainly ones who were looking to start a family in the near future who were worried of any childbirth problems.

[wilson]

Hi Spurs

The point I am making is that you cannot, as the law currently stands, add a condition (vary its terms)  to a contract that has already been entered into. (without the consent of all parties) It is the basic principle of offer and acceptance.

Derek

Derek I think the legislation passed for Covid last year and the existing emergency powers act can easily ride rough shod over employment law and the human rights act. And let’s be frank with a potential 90% population vaccinated I don’t think any government will be to concerned about employment contracts.

[Spurs]

Derek yes they can if the govt make it law for NHS staff to be vaccinated it will automatically become part of all new and existing contracts

[John H]

I'm with Derek on this one, I reckon that any employer insisting that their current employees had to have the vaccination to continue in employment would be on a very very sticky wicket.
The lawyers specialising in employment law would have a field day.
A company wishing to do this would need very deep pockets for the awards a tribunal would make to those dismissed or victimised, on saying for businesses with public contact, restaurants/shops, the business gained by having a "safe" environment might make it a worthwhile investment.

Regards all

John

[Spurs]

John

It totally depends on if it’s law or not . If the law changes as I suspect it’s going to and it says to work for the NHS you have to be vaccinated, then it’s not optional anymore and would be part of your terms and conditions.
It’s the same as if a new safety way of working was brought in , you would not be able to not do it that way because you were employed before it came in

[John H]

Spurs it's a minefield.

Don't get me wrong, I jumped at the gun for my vaccination and drove 40 miles to get is as soon as possible, I think everyone should have it where medically possible, unfortuantely we don't all think alike!!

Regards all

John

[Spurs]

It is a minefield John . I had my jab Thursday , just hoping we can safely travel this summer

[Derek]

As the law stands you can alter any employees terms and conditions but if the employee does accept the new (revised) conditions they can claim redundancy. As I have said before all parties to any agreement must consent to it being changed.

I honestly cannot see how the Government can alter this fundamental principle of English contract law. It will make the lawyers millions in fees. I would put money on the fact this will not happen.

Obviously going forward with new staff you can include any term you want however all terms must be legal and must not discriminate. Even with the likes of Saga there is a risk involved in allowing those who are vaccinated to travel but not others.

I personally would like all travel firms and the NHS to insist that all are vaccinated but within the English law of both contract and discrimination I just cannot see the Government risking it.

Derek

[Derek]

John

It totally depends on if it’s law or not . If the law changes as I suspect it’s going to and it says to work for the NHS you have to be vaccinated, then it’s not optional anymore and would be part of your terms and conditions.
It’s the same as if a new safety way of working was brought in , you would not be able to not do it that way because you were employed before it came in

Interesting comment. I doubt if a specific way of working in a safe manner would be including in the terms of employment. However if the contract did contain such terms then the contract would be illegal and void (when the law changed). The employee could not be forced to enter into a new contract, as both parties must be allowed to freely enter into any contract and therefore constructive dismissal would be the name of the game. The damages would obviously be the redundancy amount.

Derek

[Spurs]

Derek

NHS contracts currently don’t say that you don’t need a vaccination so if the law is changed and again it’s been mentioned today on the news , then it would be part of your terms and conditions as you would not be allowed to break the law in your job.

Interestingly Galicia region in Spain are now looking at making it a legal requirement to have the Jab for everyone . They are proposing huge fines if you catch it without a vaccination and a €60k fine if you pass it to someone else . Don’t know how that’s gonna go down but I suspect if they do it other regions and countries may follow

[Derek]

You cannot rely on a omission to a contract. For example if it failed to stipulate something then that can be assume it to be included. A nonsense. You can see that this will be a very difficult area.

As far as that Spanish Council you refer to unfortunately Councillors tend to dream up ideas and then get them checked out by the legal people which then knocks the idea out. No way can anyone be made to have a vaccination. It would be totally against their human rights.

Providing you have mental capability then you must have the choice surely. I am sure the likes of Hitler would have carried out medical procedures without consent but we have move on a bit since then.

Yes I agree that you would not be allowed to break the law in your job which is why you would be redundant.

Derek

[Spurs]

They were talking on Sky News this morning and It was clearly stated by the legal guy that if the Govt made it a law for NHS workers to be vaccinated and people who are already in that job refused, they would be in breach of their terms and conditions as any new law is automatically included in your terms and conditions and therefore they would be dismissed not made redundant and a tribunal would decide they had been dismissed for a fair reason .

In Galicia it’s going to be have vaccine or pay €3000 fine

[Derek]

It will be interesting. I am not a lawyer so I assume the Sky guy would know his stuff.

Derek

[Spurs]

It will certainly be interesting because when Matt Hancock was asked if it was going to be compulsory on the Friday press conference he didn’t rule it out ! He chose to give the we want to encourage them all to be vaccinated answer but when pressed he again didn’t say no . So I read that as we will try to push it voluntarily but if not then maybe we will

[wilson]

In the nhs changes to terms and conditions are a routine event. There is a consultation then implementation. Individuals with issues are reviewed and where appropriate alternative or reasonable adjustments are made. If the role undertaken is deemed after assessment to come under the required new terms and conditions then if the employee cannot or will not comply then alternative roles would be offered, refusal of reasonable role offers would eventually lead to individual having no further employment within the organisation. This has been the case for many years. Patient safety is paramount therefore employee demands will never win.