Brexit, that horrible word

[Corporal Jones]

John i agree with a lot of your points, but throughout history in every prosperous country there has been a reliance on cheap labour to maximise profit. The problem is it only works on that generation for a short period, the cheap labour no longer wants to work for a pittance, so more cheap labour is sought and the cycle continues.As for being a net contributor the local spring onion pickers apparently get £5 an hour on average i can't see much tax being paid on that wage. Not much revenue for the exchequer but lots of cheap salad in tesco.

[John H]

It's transient labour that keeps the economy ticking, they just travel a bit further than Norman Tebbit thought the bike would take them
Staying in gives us;
Free trade in one of the worlds wealthiest and biggest marketplaces
The right to study, work, reside and retire anywhere in any of the amazing countries in the EU
Free healthcare throughout the EU
Favourable and agreed trading terms with the rest of the world
EU laws protecting our rights as consumers, workers and travelers throughout the EU
A say in the rules that will influence the future of Europe

In my view all things we should hold onto as no one can guarantee what the alternative holds......out of the frying pan and into the fire?

Regards all

John


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[dleafy]

The sad fact is that if our spineless self serving government had taken a grip on the immigration issue from day one, there would be little or no out campaign to speak of.
Unfortunately, any anti immigration talk labels you a racist.
How on earth has it come to this?

[kevinb]

Exactly my thoughts  Dleafy.

[kevinb]

I have thought about the issues re in or out and for me it comes down to this , freedom to travel and settle in any EU state has come at too high a price for the UK, having just turned 60 it would suit me better staying in the EU but I cannot vote to remain for my kids and grandchildren sake, more immigration will lead to sky high rents and property prices, we will never be able to build enough houses in the future and have never managed it in the past. We will always have immigration into the UK but need a points system like Australia who take people they need and who can pay for themselves.

[Tony Gillam]

I share Kevin's concerns on the level of immigration. Our infrastructure simply cannot cope. We are already among the most densely populated and probably heading to become 'the' most densely populated country in Europe. This may not seem so apparent to many of you northerners but it is here in the South East and in my home city, Portsmouth, which is the most densely populated in the country after London, it is very much so. The proposed further expansion of the EU will exacerbate this problem even more.

Turning to John's earlier comments regarding migrant labour for the low-paid jobs while many of our indigenous workforce would rather draw benefits than take the jobs, the solution is to more radically shake up the welfare system than has currently been done. I can't see any party having the political cojones to do so despite the two-fold advantage of addressing the work-shy and reducing the attractiveness of immigration for these jobs.

Reformation of the EU appears an impossible task and I'm reluctantly drawn to the "out" camp but fear for our economic future.

[puddy-woo]

I live in a London borough.  My waitrosse shut and is now an international supermarket with those cheap bowls outside full of tomatoes etc and our local hairdressers is now a turkish barbers with em sitting outside smoking their bubble pipes. Saddens me to the core. I want out. Call me what you will


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[kevinb]

I spent a lot of my working life in different parts of London, the amount of foreign nationals appearing in the last few years is staggering, our identity is in danger, Boston where I visit friends is like an eastern bloc town and now has the dubious distinction of being the murder capital of Great Britain. God knows what the UK will be like when all the new countries join the EU, so for me I have to say out.

[sunseekers]

So again it comes down to immigration, i still maintain that even if we are out that will make no difference whatsoever as any deal for free trade will need to come with free movement of people, as others have negotiated previously, this is not a 'ludicrous' thought either as its also highlighted in the governments own facts leaflet which has now come through our letterbox. 
I say again, if we are in, we have a say but if we are out we could end up like such as norway with a free trade and free movement of people agreement and absolutely NO SAY about any future decisions about immigrants. Our best protection is what we already have, the Schengen agreement and the fact that we do have a seat at the table.
And yes i also agree with tony that our benefits system needs overhauling, would it be better to keep what we have and lobby the government than to risk everything we already have, and i happen to think that as a country we are doing well at the moment and i do,not want to risk that, and yes my husband and i could also cope financially but it is for the sake of my two children and five grandchildren that i do not want the financial instability and further risk to jobs that an out vote will bring, for many years into their futures i feel.

Problems in the south could be addressed with rent caps and caps to the amount of second properties it is possible to own. i have long thought controls should be in place, particularly in london, it is greedy landlords buying up too many properties, especially cheaper ones which first time buyers would normally start with.  It surely wont be long before london has no londoners at all and i feel sorry for anyone trying to get a start there. Many landlords are foreign buyers attracted by the phenomenal prices and rents to be gained, if controls were put into place to restrict this practice it would help the real locals, but the government seem happy to keep allowing this.
Hazel

[puddy-woo]

The phenomenal rent prices dont seem to bother the 10 poles per bedroom bedhopping and sharing their oyster cards unfortunately Hazel.


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[Spurs]

Interesting its come down to immigration if you ask almost anyone in UK about the referendum it is 99% about immigration and while some people don't like that as an argument it is the single biggest issue in this vote . I personally don't think either in or out of the EU will make any difference if we want to trade we have to agree to free movement .what we have to do as a country is look at the reasons why the UK is such a draw to others like NHS ,minimum wage that is 6 times as high as Eastern Europe,benefits, housing etc etc . We then need to make some very hard decisions our welfare state is far to generous and we need to stop paying so much out . Make it less attractive and you will stop the flow

[sunseekers]

I agree with you puddy-woo, its a sad state of affairs, and does happen here in the north too (except the oyster card thing)albeit probably on a smaller scale than the south, cant be legal can it? Does anyone report these things or do they just accept it as what goes on?  Councils have power to act on such circumstances encorcing laws in place, its what you pay part of your council taxes for isnt it, there must be something that can be done and it will take enough people to kick up enough of a stink and report such circumstances because as long as the money is coming in, the landlord allowing, and sometimes even encouraging such circumstances, will be well happy, and unless the council knows they will never do anything. 

Its awful but this is already happening, and has happened in the past before all the european immigrants, it needs addressing at a local level by using powers already in place, if councils are not doing anything about it then its your councillors who need to be doing more.

Immigration has always been a bone of contention, with the need for more citizens to generate income balanced by the feeling of alienation by some areas but its not the people trying to make a living that are the problem but others who take advantage and a complacent or even lazy system of not taking enough action to make sure things are done in the correct way by the people we elect who are supposed to be working for our benefit.

[kevinb]

Yes Hazel immigration is ONE of the issues ,too many times in the past its the elephant in the room, i'm not saying it will be stopped but  it needs drastically reducing, Labour labelled anyone who spoke out about immigration as a racist, something I will never forgive them for.

[sunseekers]

Its not actually an issue for me, as i have said in answer to the people who think the only way is to stop immigration and the only way to do that is vote out.  I am an in vote. Whether we are in or out we will still end up with freedom of movement as part of any deal, i believe that to be true and dont have a problem with it.
If you want to try and change the way people come to this country to seek work in the way they do in australia, that should be talked about within the european framework, its certainly not a subject that is talked about only in britain, but i feel that here it has been hyped up by a media in order to gain influence.  Ive done my own homework on all of the points relevant in the in out referendum and havent relied on media and other people spouting their own opinions.  I just hope that everyone who votes actually looks at the big picture for themselves and doesnt allow this one issue to influence the whole thing.
Freedom of movement works both ways, it leaves us free to travel to europe seek work there, live there, retire there, have holidays with cheaper airfares and communications, and of course last but not least, trade freely. Whether you like it or not we do need additional people to pay into the infrastructure which services our aged population. 
I dont care what origins people have, everyone is equal to me and deserves the same chance and I dont like to hear of anyone being taken advantage of because they are trying to make a living whether they originate from here or anywhere else.
As ive said before, i believe in the principles of a united Europe and that includes the freedom of movement that has everyone talking.
Hazel

[Tony Gillam]

It still comes back down to our physical capacity to cope. Are we going to build a city the size of Nottingham every single year together with all its infrastructure, doctors, teachers etc because unless we do, we have a serious problem.