Brexit, that horrible word

[Ash]

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[kevinb]

Yeah, doomed if we stay in the EU, just been reported that 200,000 immigrants turn up each year in London, got to take control of immigration again before it wrecks us.

[sunseekers]

It seems to me that the main bugbear held by the out voters is immigration (which the media have stirred up nicely), but if we are voted out we will have to renegotiate trade agreements which will in all probability have freedom of movement included in them as part and parcel of the deal (which is what norway for instance had to agree to in order to get the trade agreement and why should we be treated any differently).
 Therefore as regards freedom of movement, if indeed we got the same trade ageeement that has been the one agreed by others in that posision, there would be no change at all. Oh yes, excuse me, there would, we would have no say in any laws made inside europe regarding immigration as we would no longer be sat at that table and would just have to go with whatever was agreed.

[kevinb]

Its not just immigration, its not being able to govern ourselves also the huge cost and being tied to and organization that is going to self destruct, the euro is ultimately doomed with it. I also don't want to be ruled by Germany.

[Tony Gillam]

Just returning briefly to the expat issue, I fail to see how someone who has resided abroad for fifteen years could be on the electoral roll anyway unless they are telling porkies.

[dleafy]

To suggest that the UK could only negotiate a trade agreement with Europe which is similar to Norway is ludicrous.
About 5 million jobs in Europe rely on uk trade. Norway exports and imports a fraction of what we do. The Uk would be in a much stronger position to negotiate.

However!....by the same token, the current trade agreements which we have with the US & China, for example, are as strong as they are because they are negotiated by 'Europe' as a whole. We wouldn't have the same agreements if we negotiated them in isolation.

[John H]

Well said sunseekers.
All those in the out camp who think that trade agreements are something you can knock up in 10 minutes are in cloud cuckoo land.
What did Obahma say.....it wouldn't be a priority and would take 10 years
I saw an interview the other week with the Canadian trade minister, they had nearly concluded or had just concluded a trade agreement with the EU that had taken 10+ years to negotiate
What will happen to our economy whilst we are waiting for all these deals to be drawn up?
We would be up the creek without a paddle
As I've said many a time, the EU isn't perfect, but what is, but far better to be in than out

Regards all

John


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[kevinb]

Yours is a valid point John but what's going to happen to us if we stay in and the EU expands and we have 75 million knocking on our door, how will the NHS ,schools and housing cope, I've seen the UK change beyond recognition in my life time, what's it going to be like for future generations ?

[John H]

Morning Kevin..........what makes you think they'll all want to come knocking on our door?
In DC's "brilliant" negotiations he's stopped any migrants getting benefits until theyve contributed..........even though all the stats say that EU migrants into the UK are net contributors, unlike quite a few "residents"
If we did not allow EU migrants into our country quite a few industries would collapse........the "locals" wont work in the fields picking crops.........the farmers round where we live just cant recruit locals, they are more than happy enough to sit on their buts collecting their benefits...........the nursing homes and retirement homes are largely staffed by EU migrants.......again the locals wont do the job..........local hotels are cleaned and staffed by migrants...........again the locals find the work demeaning.
The local hospitals employ EU citizens at all levels, from cleaning staff to consultants.
In my last few years at work we went to Spain and Poland recruiting excellent pharmacists when we in the UK had a shortage of pharmacists, had we not been able to do this local community pharmacies would have been unable to open and dispense medication
A local haulage company, they run a fleet of 50 wagons employ 20 Polish drivers...........they cant recruit localy
I live in a small town on the Yorkshire Coast...........go to any large conurbation and you will see an even bigger reliance on EU citizens.
I wonder how residents of Santa Pola viewed all of us buying up property in their area and using the services despite the fact that most of us dont work or pay any NI or income tax in Spain...........I know we pay tax on purchases etc but so do migrants to the UK...........perhaps they can see that more people living in the area has created jobs in construction, housing and commercial, provided hundreds of jobs in supermarkets and restaurants,  allowed people to open their own businesses to serve this influx of immigrants, grown the facilities in the area, schools, sports centres...........all good things.
The UK has rapidly growing number of pensioners and older people needing more expensive healthcare and welfare costs, these migrants to the UK are the people whose direct and indirect taxation will be paying our state pensions these welfare costs in years to come.

Fortress Britain in isoloation IMHO will be a far worse place for future generations.

Regards all

John

[sunseekers]

And well said yourself john too.

Dleafy, you said yourself that no-one knows what will happen, this is why i have been looking up every bit of information that i can as well as listenening to my own opinions about the eu and britain. 
This is why i used Norway as a 'for instance' to speak about what is only my own informed opinion of course, but my investigations told me that Norway in fact does 74 percent of their trade with the eu, while we export 44 percent of our product and only import 8 percent from europe, surely this means that we would need them more than they would need us. 
Also i worry about what would happen with the many companies that have set up in Britain to gain a 'foot in the door to europe' if that door does indeed close, particularly in the north east where we are, the two that come to my mind instantly are nissan and hitachi.
I do agree that things need to change within europe and the very best way of helping that to happen is to stay sat round that table and keep having a say.
No one country (i.e. Germany) runs europe, we all have a vote and we can all vetoe.

Its proving to be a very interesting debate.
Hazel

Hazel

[kevinb]

Well said John, you do make sense, I don't know which way it will go with the referendum, I do think there are pros and cons to both sides, will be an interesting few days when R Day arrives.

Cheers Kev

[John H]

As you know Kevin I've swerved both ways, like Hazel I've been doing my own research and the more I research the more I am swayed to stay in, warts an all

Regards all

John


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[kevinb]

Yes John , think that's it we all look at it in different ways , Ive spent hours reading and looking at postings and came to the opposite, to be frank, I'm well enough placed and financially secure that it won't matter to me, we will all have to sit back and see what happens .

Good Luck
.Kev

P.s off to the sun soon!

[dleafy]

Ah well...just wrote a long reply and it hasn't posted! Grrrrr
Never mind...the will of the people will prevail 

[kevinb]

Well at least we have an opportunity to vote, never thought we wou get a chance.