Unlocking the lockdown

[BeachLife]

This is a really interesting and good debate - these views are my own and are backed up by my own personal experience.

So, I lost my Dad - he passed away on the 18th April and the 6 of us (that was all that was allowed) went to the Crematorium in Coventry seated a long way apart, no Chapel of rest. no cars and we were only allowed a very basic casket.

My dad was 90 and had been in a care home for a year when he passed. His cause of death - on his certificate was COVID-19. He DID NOT die of CV-19 because 4 days before he had been discharged from hospital following a UTI but HE WAS TESTED before being returned to the home as is procedure and was not infected. But because he had been out of the home he was in isolation when he entered the end of life pathway and subsequently passed,

I questioned the death cert with the registrar and all care home deaths when the patient is in isolation is added to the overall COVID death stats.

Now onto the broader question of the future of our young and working people vs the ramifications of COVID on the general population, the current death rate is low - I was surprised when I fact checked the https://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/ website. The actual death rate OF THE GENERAL POPULATION is very small  - Spain is 0.53% Italy 0.47%  UK 0.39%.  Behind every one of those numbers is a personal tragedy and I am NOT underplaying this.

But (and please be gentle with any response) - I would not like to even guess what is an acceptable level from ANY disease but at what point do we stop the lockdown to prevent binning the future of our working children and grandchildren ?

I have had first hand experience of what a bleak employment Winter looks like. Coming out of my apprenticeship in 1981 during all the strikes and trying to survive for 18 months on scraps was horrible and stayed with me forever. 

I just posing a question - how far do we let the worlds economies collapse down to vs the life and death impact of this horrible virus ?

[chris and jackie]

In our family we have different views, my mother who is in late 80s and doesn't really go any where much is happy enough with lockdown although missing personal visits but no real impact. My son & his girlfriend are due to start new jobs in 2 weeks in a different part of country and need lockdown to ease so they can move to start new jobs.

Personally I think lockdown needs easing soon in UK as most European countries are doing and try and save economy and some jobs, you only need to see the headlines of companies shedding staff, companies going into administration etc to see what's happening. As I said previously the well off older population want lockdown to continue and most others don't.

[kevinb]

Beachlife, what you say makes sense to me, I'm classed as moderately vulnerable having had a heart attack four years ago and am sixty four, I'm fit and about the right weight for my height. I'm more concerned for my kids jobs and my grandchildren than I am about me, ive had a relatively prosperous life but I am very worried about the younger generation, we can't stay in lockdown much longer and think that the vulnerable will have to make their own decision about whether to rejoin normal life or stay in isolation. It's going to be a very difficult situation but if no vaccine becomes available and people don't produce antibodies after having the virus people will have to accept that there is going to be a large element of risk for quite a while, a question that's being asked a lot is how many people will die of deprivation and disease if economies collapse and unemployment becomes massive it's not an unreasonable question.

[John H]

We are only 5 weeks into this.........yes the economy is important, but life is even more important.

If we relax measures too early when will you want them reinstated...3000 deaths a day, 4000 deaths a day...10,000 deaths a day.

Let's sit and wait and see what happens in other countries.....we've pretty much ingnored the learnings from other countries so far so it might be a good time to pay heed.

When this is all over income tax may go up by 10p .....small price I'd be prepared to pay to still be kicking about.

Tax on flight might shoot up.....so what.......I'd still be here to go on holiday.

Regards all

John

[John H]

BeachLife, sorry to hear about your Dad.

Regards all

John

[kevinb]

Yes it's early days John, hopefully in month the situation will be clearer, there's no doubt that the lockdown won't go on for six months as that would be the end of life as we know it. It will be the young generation that are going to bear the brunt of the economics of the virus, I get my personal pension , income from property and got my state pension to look forward to do we are fine, it must be if you are young and have a family very frightening as unemployment is going to soar. Anyway as you say it's early days hopefully in a month we can start to enjoy some freedom.

[BeachLife]

Thanks John

BeachLife, sorry to hear about your Dad.

Regards all

John

[wilson]

I remember saying to the wife in February that the response to the pandemic would be all about the money, a simple ratio of how many deaths vs daily economic cost. I fully understand the financial hardship that many endure and potentially for years to come. But saving life surely must come first, it’s ironic that 600 deaths a day is spoken as we’re past the peak and it’s not too bad, well in my world it still seems dire. I think keeping the lockdown going until deaths are zero is the only sensible option because when your dead your dead. Yes young families starting out may lose they’re jobs and homes it’s tough but that is what needs to happen. Maybe a couple of 12 hour shifts on a covid ward bagging the dead might change the impatient ones mind.

[chris and jackie]

Wilson, fully appreciate your views and there have been many tragedies.
However your comments highlight the difference in the country between the older wel off population who want lockdown to continue as they are higher risk and the younger working population who need to get back to work to earn much needed income.

It's all well & good saying young families can lose their homes & jobs and it's tough when it's not your home, job & family who are deprived.

[John H]

It's interesting to note the when the Government thought that only the older ones would die from this disease they spoke of "herd immunity".....a bit like euthanasia I thought at the time...they also didn't think that at that point contact tracing was that important, its only the old ones dieing........now that we've discovered that Covid 19 can kill you whatever age you are the approach appears to be changing.
Do I want my son and grandson going back to work with our current understanding of this disease....no way.
Folk will be hard up
Jobs will be lost
Properties may be lost
But at least they'll be alive......you cant put a value on that.

Regards all

John

[wilson]

Wilson, fully appreciate your views and there have been many tragedies.
However your comments highlight the difference in the country between the older wel off population who want lockdown to continue as they are higher risk and the younger working population who need to get back to work to earn much needed income.

It's all well & good saying young families can lose their homes & jobs and it's tough when it's not your home, job & family who are deprived.

Never make assumptions I’m only 52, my last working day was the 20th March which was also the last day I received any income, my first mortgage payment holiday is actually today for 3 months, though they still want the money back in August, I’m sending my car back this month and living off my wife’s income and savings which are dwindling fast. This I believe is a sacrifice worth making for the greater good of the country, sadly some people show selfish me me me attitude bleating about trivial materialistic things which can be replaced ,because as my grandad once said your a long time dead. Support the nhs and support the government and stop whining.

[chris and jackie]

I don't think anyone is whining or being selfish there is a reasoned debate going on and following U.K. Plans to ease lockdown this week it will continue.

It's not a question of trivial materialistic things a lot of people are struggling to pay for food,heating etc for their families and don't have the luxury of savings or second incomes.

Whatever we think or want the easing of lockdown is starting across the globe and will continue and some can choose to stay indoors if they wish.

[wilson]

Still sounds whining and selfish to me, there is no debate just do as your told it’s not that difficult.

[chris and jackie]

We don't live in North Korea and we are allowed to debate and question that's democracy!! Everyone will have a different perspective on who's being selfish, the well off with second incomes/savings/second houses etc who want lockdown to continue or the younger workers who want to get back to work.

The U.K. chancellor has already said the present level of benefits is unsustainable and we need to ease workers back.

[BeachLife]

Your right - its the "uncomfortable" truth.

Benefits wont be able to be sustained for more than a few more weeks - perhaps a month. Then its down to tough choices, those that can afford it will continue to isolate and protect themselves until such a time as the infection / death  rate drops to an acceptable level (whatever that is) or they run out of cash / benefits and have to work.

Those that need to work (like my 3 furloughed kids and their partners) will and try to keep as safe as possible whilst keeping their homes intact and bills paid - IF we can get to R0 (1 person infecting less than 1 other person) life will continue to return to some sort of normality. Although I am under no illusion that it will ever be quite the same until there is a vaccine.

On another note - just watched a BBC 2 VE day program on what life was like during the war on the home front. This is nothing compared to what they went through